Questions from “The Department”

Posted: February 23, 2015 in Discussion
I asked members of the History department to give me some excellent questions for the blog. Here is what they came up with…they ask that you please forgive them 🙂

“What the difference between a Jordanian and Palestinian anyway?”

“If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”

“Isn’t it the duty of Jordanians, as fellow Arabs, to foster a feeling of brotherhood with the Palestinian cause?”

“Aren’t Palestinian and Jordanian nationalism just 20th century constructions anyway?”

“Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”

“What will it take for Palestinians to identify as Jordanian?”

“If the country is mostly Palestinian, why do we care about what Jordanians think?”

“Isn’t it better for the Palestinian cause if the passports DID identify a Jordanian citizen as a Jordan or a Palestinian?”

“Can Jordan truly exist without Palestinians?”

“Don’t Palestinians make Jordan politically more unstable?”

“Have we offended any of you yet?” 🙂

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Comments
  1. eunsoljun15 says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”

    When I first came to Jordan, and I asked “Where are you from?”, many people replied, “I’m from Jordan, but originally from Palestine.” Then the questions became more complicated as, “How are you originally from Palestine?” They replied, “My parents, and my grandparents, and so on.. are from there.” I feel like I can relate this question to when we took the “Right of Return”.The new generations identify themselves as Palestinian when they have never set foot in the country. Yet, the Jordanians here don’t hesitate to put Palestinian as part of their identity. Is Palestine really a part of them if they’ve never felt the pain, never experienced the life there? I have personally been fortunate enough to visit Palestine about four times, and I have seen with my own eyes the daily pain they have to go through. I hear their cries for freedom, but are the two cries (that of Palestinians living in Palestine, and those who are living outside but classify themselves as Palestinians) similar?

    • Juliana Kaldany says:

      I agree with you Eun. And to answer your question, no those two cries aren’t similar, but that doesn’t make the urgency or need of those cries any less worthy of the other to be answered. Palestinians in Jordan that are raised with stories of their grandfathers and fathers about their past are raised with an urgency to retrieve what has once been stolen from them. Living in a land that they once thought was temporary has now become permanent and their cries of return to their homes must be heard.
      As for the Palestinians living in Palestine, could you refer to where exactly? The living conditions and oppression differs from place to place. (Gaza/West Bank/Israel)

    • “I have personally been fortunate enough to visit Palestine about four times,”

      Yes Eun, I am Palestinian, and my father was that last in the family to have been born there, but I am Palestinian, and you know how I am reminded by that every day? I cannot visit the West Bank, or my family there. I am BANNED, because of my father’s surname. Many other Palestinians thankfully can do that, though I cannot- despite having pretty much the rest of my father’s family in the West Bank- and those people, just for the record, were in Haifa before 1948.
      You visited a place you don’t belong to 4 times, when I am not allowed to go there, and have to wait for every other Eid to see my extended family visit us in Jordan, after hours of scrutinizing at the border, which by the way, is just because they are Palestinians. Feel the pain now?

      • And no, the cries are not similar. One is a cry for freedom and emancipation, while the other is of longing and the right to return. And both are to be honored. You are just degrading the integrity and feelings behind the cries of those in the diaspora, but that is another story for another time. If you do want to know the story however, I would be more than happy to tell you about the feelings and events that created that longing in me. Only if you promise not to question someone else’s feelings so senselessly again.

      • eunsoljun15 says:

        Wow, that was a harsh reply. I’m sorry if I didn’t really counter in the emotions you would feel while reading my comment, but as an outsider, this was a question that I personally had. I understand that not only you but many others are banned from going to your home place just because of one’s identity. I’m sorry again if this question is rude. Isn’t your identity more based off of Jordan when you’ve lived here most of your life? What is it about you besides the name that makes you more Palestinian?

      • Well, I did not live in Jordan most of my life, I lived most of my life in the United Arab Emirates, but that does not make me an Emirati. Look, a state is different from nation, and nations are different from ethnicities. I can identify as Jordanian if I want to, and that would be completely rational, and I can identify as Palestinian, and that would also be completely reasonable. according to the law, I am Jordanian, period. But I am not Palestinian by name only, as you just labelled me, which was an offensive way of putting it, based purely on assumptions. More than half of my family still lives in the West Bank- after being forcefully removed from Haifa in 1948, and many other family members still live in Refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan. That is the case for a reason Eun, it is because I am Palestinian, because of my history, my current life, and my future. These are physical reminders of my identity, and they are what distinguishes my people from some others around them. And I feel like that when I am doing better off than most of my family members. Just think about how strongly my relatives, who still live in the camps in Amman, Irbid, Sidon, Beirut, Jenin, and Nablus (imagine a family forcefully scattered like that, and that is only my Dad’s) would feel? That it was purely because of who we are, because of where our ancestors lived, that we are as we are now. I can’t just change my identity just because I would benefit from that. For all intents and purposes, being Jordanian, and being in Jordan has been great for me, it is something I am grateful for, and that is why, if asked, I often choose to identify as Jordanian, Yes, I choose to belong to these people as well, but you saying I am not Palestinian, or that I am Palestinian by name, goes to show that you did not bother finding out a little bit about many Palestinians like me. Ask me, I will tell you the route my grandfather took from Haifa to Jenin in 1948, and about my great grandfather’s mining work. Hell, you can even meet my great aunt next summer- if the border police don’t ask her for a strip search at the border- she would rather go back to Jenin than do that humiliate herself to cross the border.

    • While those cries are not the same, one calling for the right of return, and the other calling for a more just treatment in Palestine, the morality, sentiment, and origins of those cries all revolve around the same subject, and the same issue.

  2. Juliana Kaldany says:

    “What will it take for Palestinians to identify as Jordanian?”
    Identity is critical and delicate to determine. There is no need for all Palestinians in Jordan to to identify themselves as Jordanian if they do not relate to the nationality and if Jordan did not contribute greatly to their identity and made up who they are. But, when Palestinians born and raised in Jordan who have the nation’s citizenship are asked about their nationality and answer with: “I’m Palestinian” are at wrong. When you haven’t lived in Palestine, when you weren’t born in Palestine, and the last person from your genetic line born in Palestine or has lived there is your grandfather then you have to at least acknowledge the country you were born and raised in along with your Palestinian origin when speaking of identity. That is only my opinion, and in the end, if a Palestinian was born raised in Jordan and still doesn’t feel linked to the country or feel that Jordan hasn’t contributed to their life or identity then they can also validly claim that when questioned about their identity.
    Who are we to judge someone’s identity?

    • Well, you said you cannot judge someone’s identity, but you just did!

      “But, when Palestinians born and raised in Jordan who have the nation’s citizenship are asked about their nationality and answer with: “I’m Palestinian” are at wrong. ”

      I am not saying you are right or wrong with that, I am just pointing it out. However, the thing I will comment on is what you said afterwards.

      ” When you haven’t lived in Palestine, when you weren’t born in Palestine, and the last person from your genetic line born in Palestine or has lived there is your grandfather then you have to at least acknowledge the country you were born and raised in along with your Palestinian origin when speaking of identity.”

      If asked, I personally identify as a mix of Jordanian and Palestinian. However, if I choose to identify as fully Palestinian, I believe that would be a completely viable and reasonable way to respond. Showing appreciation for the country that hosted me and my family does not have to be intertwined with my identity.
      Now, my father himself was born in Jenin and was forced out of his home in 1967, and many Palestinians in Jordan have a similar case to mine. But even if my father was born in Jordan, all of my grandfather’s siblings were able to remain in Jenin after 1967 (that’s a story for another time), so most of my extended family is in the West bank.
      That is my identity, and that is how I have inherited it and DESERVE to identify as such, does it seem more reasonable now? I should not have to explain myself to you though!

      How about Circassians and Chechens in Jordan? It was not their grandparents who were forced out of their homes in the Caucus, but their great- grandparents, or great-great grandparents! Yet I don’t see you judging them that way when they identify as Circassian. Palestinians, just like Circassians, can choose what to identify as, it’s an inalienable right, and by questioning it, you discriminate against me. Besides, You once identified yourself as Iraqi because of your Iraqi origins, remember that too? That, too, should not offend a Jordanian.

      • Juliana Kaldany says:

        I agree with you completely and I do realize that I contradicted myself above. And I do not identify as Iraqi, I identify as Jordanian. But when I’m asked if I’m completely Jordanian I might mention that my ancestry trails back ti Iraq.

  3. (I am sorry if I offend anyone with this comment, I hope it doesn’t), but this is what I experienced when I first came to Jordan about 6 years ago. When asked where they were from, many of my classmates answered “I am Palestinian”. This confused me, because I knew that they were born in Jordan, has lived in Jordan their whole life, and their parents have lived in Jordan for most of their lives as well. At the time, Palestine as a nation did not ‘officially’ exist, (but I don’t know whether they held Jordanian passports or not), and so I was very confused what differentiated these ‘Palestinians’ from Jordanians.
    Now, having lived here for almost 6 years and having learned more about the Middle Eastern history, I now see that there is a historical and personal (and nationalistic) differentiation between Palestinians and Jordanians. However, the matter is not yet completely clear to me. These questions from the department are all also questions of mine, and even if there are no specific answers to them, I think these are worth discussing.

    • Aziz Sbeih says:

      Personally, I don’t see why we as Arabs choose to classify ourselves according to nationalities that were forced upon us through the Sykes Picot accord, and I don’t understand why we are so adamant to classify ourselves with artificial nations, and we forget that we all come from the same race, speak the same language, and worship the same God. I can empathize with you and understand why you got so confused, because it actually doesn’t make any common sense. The Palestinian struggle is an Arab struggle, just like the Syrian struggle to build a democracy, or the Egyptian struggle to get rid of Sisi’s military rule, but unfortunately, we chose to embrace those fake nationalities and flags and we chose not to stand with each other against occupations, invasions, or despotic rulers, be it the Israeli occupation of Palestine from 1948, the two American attacks on Iraq during both Gulf Wars, Al Assad’s and Qaddafi’s dictatorial rules, or the European colonization of Arab ‘nations’ in the aftermath of the Sykes Picot accord where each ‘country’ fought for its own artificial borders. This is why I continue to believe in Jamal Abdul Nasser’s message years after his death, because only under him we witnessed for the first time a union between two Arab nations, Egypt and Syria, even though it was temporary unity.

  4. Marah Tarawneh says:

    The answer to these questions isn’t the same for all Palestinians. Each Palestinian has a different story and is experiencing different details. Yes the bigger picture is the same, everyone has the same ultimate goal, but the small details and experiences matter when it comes to identifying a person’s identity. In my opinion, each person should have the RIGHT to identify themselves however they choose to. This is because even if a person never visited or wasn’t born in Palestine, he should still have the right to feel he belongs to the country that he constantly hears stories about from his parents and grandparents, and wishes to go to on every single occasion. However, if a person feels that Jordan has given him so much and without it he wouldn’t be the same person, then he should have the right to feel he belongs to the country that he is spending his whole life in.

    Now, this ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT mean choosing one identity takes away the right of belonging to the other. It is completely normal to experience both nationalism, at the end of the day, both nationalities are SO much similar… so why do Palestinians have to choose one over the other?! I honestly don’t see any legitimate reason for it. And as one of the questions mentioned, it is the duty of Jordanians, as fellow Arab, to support the cause and foster a sense of brotherhood. In fact, now it has become a duty as a fellow human, not just Arab…

    I wouldn’t use the word “exist”, because politically it wouldn’t be accurate, but one should admit that Jordan wouldn’t be the same or even as developed without the Palestinians in. The reasons for this, especially economical reasons, are obvious but many extreme nationalists choose to ignore them. In my opinion, just like people expect Palestinians who were born and are living in Jordan to remember and acknowledge what Jordan gave and is giving them, especially citizenship and safety, Jordan and Jordanians should remember and acknowledge the Palestinian input and how much they gave to Jordan. Otherwise, we would be the creators of differences between the two nationalities and making it harder to live together, and help each other.

    I hope I didn’t offend anyone 🙂

    • eunsoljun15 says:

      Marah, I just have one question. Regarding the first opinion you stated, what if someone feels both? What if that person feels like he/she is Palestinian because of the stories passed down, but simultaneously Jordanian because his history also has parts of Jordan in it? If this happens, do the two identities stay balanced or should one side be stronger than the other?

      • Marah Tarawneh says:

        Again, I can’t answer and no one should answer for all the Palestinians, because each person has different story, therefore different perspective. In the case of feeling that he belongs to the two identities, he should have the right to choose either balancing between them or feeling stronger for one over the other, and this may change throughout his life. After all, Black September is over, and I sincerely hope that it doesn’t happen again, in fact I’m sure it won’t. Therefore, I don’t see any legitimate reason why someone shouldn’t have the right to decide where to stand regarding the two nationalities.

      • eunsoljun15 says:

        Would identifying yourselves as Arab be simpler than naming a nationality?

      • Marah Tarawneh says:

        Well, Arab is a nationality to many people, so the answer to this goes back to my initial point that each person has a story and this story shapes their belonging.
        However, this is a really good question because it connects to one of the department’s questions “Isn’t it better for the Palestinian cause if the passports DID identify a Jordanian citizen as a Jordan or a Palestinian?” I’m personally not sure about the answer to this, because again it’s different to each person/Palestinian. However, if I had to answer I would say that it’s better for the Palestinians cause to keep their Palestinian identity on their passports, even if it’s just de jure. I know this might seem as a contradiction with my first answers but what I’m trying to say is that if it helps the Palestinians cause to have an official document that identify them as Palestinians, then why not?! I mean what is on papers doesn’t have to be the truth, so if a person feels more belonging to Jordan, then I don’t think that writing Palestinian on his passport would take away anything from his nationalism. My reasoning behind this is that this part of the world is known for their strong connections and emotions to the place that they feel they belong to, so papers and laws don’t seem to stop or minimize this connection. Therefore, as it doesn’t take away from his nationalism (whatever he chooses it to be) and it helps the Palestinian cause, then why not. If he feels his nationality is connected to all Arabs, then that’s his choice, at the end of the day, it’s like an umbrella to both nationalities.

    • I agree that a Palestinian may feel like identifying as both Palestinian and Jordanian, for a lot of Palestinians have shared history with Jordan. However, one thing that I heard when I came to Jordan (this might not be true… ) is that Palestinians are not allowed (or encouraged?) to hold official jobs or positions such as police, governmental or military positions. If this is true, then doesn’t this limit the Palestinians identifying with Jordan? Could this be one of the reasons why Palestinians keep holding on to their Palestinian identity as the stronger one despite having lived in Jordan their whole lives?

      • Marah Tarawneh says:

        Seungjung, I see what you mean here, and you are right many use this argument to create differences. However, I will give you a few examples to prove otherwise:
        1. Ahmad Toukan, he held was a minister, a prime minister (1970) and the chief of the Hashemite Royal Court (1972).
        2. Jawad Al-Anani, he was a chief of the Hashemite Royal Court (1998), held a number of ministries (1979-1994), a senate, and is now the the president of the Jordan Economic and Social council.
        3. Adnan Abu Odeh, he was a senate, (1974, 1979, 1997), a chief of the Hashemite Royal Court (1991), he was an adviser to HM King Abdullah and King Hussein, and Jordan’s representative in the UN (1992).
        4. Khaled Toukan, currently a chairman of the Jordan Atomic Energy Commission, minister of energy (2011), minister of education (2000-2008), and minister of Higher Education and Scientific Research (2001–2002).
        5. Nasser Judeh, foreign minister (2008), and previously in the Royal Court.
        Current ministers:
        1. Ibrahim Seif, minister of planning and International Cooperation
        2. Omayh Toukan, minister of finance.

      • Marah Tarawneh says:

        and just to clarify, as an answer to you last question, holding high positions in the government, doesn’t mean they should let go of their Palestinian identity.

    • Zaid Khalaf says:

      his confused me, because I knew that they were born in Jordan, has lived in Jordan their whole life, and their parents have lived in Jordan for most of their lives as wel

      • Nizar says:

        Yes zeid you have a point.
        They should identify themselves depending on the land they believe they’re from.
        It doesn’t matter if they are living there. Or if their ancestors lived there.

  5. abbyhungate says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”

    I personally think that it does not make you Jordanian by default. This question will be answered differently be everyone it is asked because it is a personal preference. It depends on your background and where you believe you are from. Just because you were born in one place does not mean that you are from that place. It definitely matters where your family came from and also where, in your heart, you identify with. No one can label for you were you are from and it is possible to identify with two places. You can feel that you are half Jordanian and half Iraqi, it all depends on what you believe.

  6. faisaldahabra says:

    “What will it take for Palestinians to identify as Jordanian?”
    I dont understand how this could be a question i as a Jordanian get mad when i see such question for only one reason Palestine is a country and one should be proud to call them self’s Palestinians not wanting them self’s to be called Jordan have pride in your country no matter what happened to it.

  7. farah sinokrot says:

    i think that times of when someone identifies themselves as Palestinian even if they were born in Jordan and they lived their entire life in Jordan to now saying that they are Jordanian and originally Palestinian. This makes an huge difference because now people forget about the hatred and the differentiation between nationalities and only 30 mins time difference between the two cities.

    • khaleel abdel razeq says:

      I totally understand that peace and unity and brotherhood should be titled beneath Jordanians and Palestinians, but still you can’t just state the negligence of the ethnicities and nationalities both Jordanians and Palestinians should never forget their true and original roots.

  8. farah sinokrot says:

    also, most Jordanians are Palestinians because essentially both were the same country as the west bank was part of Jordan. so for the exception of some tribes there wouldn’t be Jordan without Palestinians because Jordan was built with Palestinians in it. moreover, Syrians should be a bigger threat to Jordanians than any Palestinian.

  9. Mallak Al Husban says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”

    of course not. a person can have a Jordanian passport and still have a Palestinian identity. Speaking of identities, Jordan and Palestine share a lot of similarities when it comes to tradition and culture. there isn’t that big of a gap between us. If they care about Jordan and are willing to work for the country and support it, then holding their other identity doesn’t affect the country or us as people in any way.

  10. nizar qadadeh says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”
    I personally think of it as a home. I am not living in my home country right now. I have lived in Jordan my entire life meaning that Jordan meaning that it is home. Palestine is where i’m from, my nationality. Back in history, Palestine and Jordan was one. I have a jordanian passport and still have a Palestinian identity.

  11. miralobaidi says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”

    No, this is the same as asking a Spanish-American does being an American mean forgetting your Spanish identity?

    • khaleel abdel razeq says:

      I agree, but still you’r comparison between Spanish-American and Palestinian Jordanian is that Spanish people living in America chose to live in America and not live in Spain, but Palestinians were actually ethnically cleansed from their own country and they didn’t choose it, it was forced upon them.

    • While this is an apt analogy, the issue surrounding the right of return is the main difference. where a Spanish-american probably has the ability to return to his/her ethnic roots, a displaced Palestinian does not have that choice.

  12. miralobaidi says:

    “Don’t Palestinians make Jordan politically more unstable?”

    They once did during the 1960’s because the Palestinian resistance groups had formed a state within a state. They were acting as a single state and undermining Jordanian authority. However, nowadays they have learned to coexist, and I don’t think they make Jordan politically unstable.

  13. miralobaidi says:

    “Can Jordan truly exist without Palestinians?”

    No since Jordan’s population is 50-60% Palestinians.

  14. miralobaidi says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”

    No, Jordanian law dictates that the father of the person must be of Jordanian ethnicity in order for that person to receive a passport. However, it depends on how you identify yourself and whether you feel like Jordan is your home. But at the end of the day, you still wouldn’t have the Jordanian passport.

  15. Leylandin Kurdi says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”
    I have spent most of my life in Jordan and I have tons of Palestinian friends since they form the majority of Jordan’s population. I have never met any Palestinian who does not admit that he/she has Palestinian origins. Even though most of the Palestinians of my age were born and raised in Jordan, they still know that they have a Palestinian identity that will never be neglected.

    • Do you think that people like that, or their children will ever be able to consider themselves wholly Jordanian, or will ‘Palestinian’ stay with their family forever?

  16. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “What will it take for Palestinians to identify as Jordanian?”
    I think its all about nationalism, and how strong it is in a mans mindset. For some, only documents would give them a good cause to identify themselves as Jordanians, for others it is impossible to forget their true nationality which is Palestinian. In my case, I was born in Jordan, and I have the Jordanian passport, but I still consider myself a pure Palestinian.

  17. Yasmine Malas says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?” and “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?” could in many ways answer each other. I’m a Palestinian/Syrian born in Jordan and yes, I have a Jordanian passport by default, but my identity does not disregard my Palestinian and Syrian roots because of that. So, to therefore answer the first question, no, being a Jordanian citizen does not mean that my Palestinian identity should be forgotten. On the contrary, I should hold true to my Palestinian background more strongly than I do my system-based, technical Jordanian passport.

  18. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    Following up on what I just posted, this doesn’t give an excuse to separate me from any Jordanian, even though my real ethnicity is Palestinian, and my family was there since the beginning, I would never neglect or ignore my Jordanian status since I live here, ate, drank, and grew up here.

  19. Zaid Khalaf says:

    Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?” I agree that a Palestinian may feel like identifying as both Palestinian and Jordanian, for a lot of Palestinians have shared history with Jordan.

  20. Zaid Khalaf says:

    Living in a land that they once thought was temporary has now become permanent and their cries of return to their homes must be heard.
    As for the Palestinians living in Palestine, The living conditions and oppression differs from place to place

  21. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”
    That’s were the difference between ethnicity and nationality pops up. Nationality is just the legal documents and papers that you use to travel and cross boarders, ethnicity on the other hand is where your family tree originated, and where your ancestors came from.

  22. Leylandin Kurdi says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?”
    Even if you were born in Jordan, the Jordanian law does not give you the right to obtain the Jordanian nationality and passport. You have to have a father carrying the Jordanian passport in order to be able to obtain it. In addition to this law, a mother cannot giver her children the Jordanian nationality or passport. This is a highly debated topic now, and there were several manifests about this law.

    • Zaid Khalaf says:

      I know that the Jordanian law does not let you take the passport, but im jordanian and i believe it should, because these people are not being treated fairly considering that they have been born here.

      • Mallak Al Husban says:

        Leylandin, do you really think that this problem can be solved? How can we change a constitutional law that has been there since forever?

      • Leylandin Kurdi says:

        Mallak, I think that this needs a lot of contribution from the people. If women, and even men can stress on the fact that this law is unjust for the children that are born in Jordan, that are half Jordanian, and still do not get the chance to obtain the Jordanian passport.

  23. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    leylan..

  24. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”
    Ofcourse not, all of these nationalities are detected beneath an umbrella called Arabism. Although I live in Jordan and I was born in Jordan, I will never forget my original ethnicity which is Palestine.

  25. Leylandin Kurdi says:

    I definitely agree with you, but how do you think this problem can be solved?

  26. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    leylan, I do not think that the women will have the power to hand their children a nationality.

    • Mallak Al Husban says:

      Women have the same exact abilities that men have. How different are they? can you elaborate even more?

  27. Leylandin Kurdi says:

    Khaleel, cann you please elaborate more on your statement?

  28. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    Yes, in my opinion i dont think that women would be able to hold the responsibility of having her children on her own legal documents, since at one point they will grow up and need to travel accross boarders on their own.

  29. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “If the country is mostly Palestinian, why do we care about what Jordanians think?”
    firstly, since palestinians were ethnically cleansed, and immigrated by force and with no choice to its neighboring countries, that doesnt mean they overthrow the real population of the country they left to.

  30. Leylandin Kurdi says:

    Khaleel, I don’t quite understand what you said about women not having the responsibility to have their children on their legal documents. Are you saying that this law should still be applied in Jordan? And why wouldn’t women be able to pass on their nationality to their children. This works perfectly fine in countries like: the United States, France and the U.K.

  31. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    My point is that as in Islam, Men would pass their religion to their children, not women, so I think it should be the same thing in the nationality. If you think about it, on the ID that is handed by the government, the section that states the religion of the person is taken from his dad, so it would make no sense if the ID itself was made according to the moms nationality and diffferent sections in it was based on the father’s information.

  32. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “Can Jordan truly exist without Palestinians?
    Yes it can, but I think that it wont be in the same way it is currently, because 60% of the population if not more, is Palestinian, and other than the nationality, this 60% makes a huge part of the community where they do many stuff including labor and things that without them Jordan wouldve never stand on its feet properly like it is now.

    • Rashed says:

      I do not think it can. The Palestinians created job competition in the economy, which made the Jordanians start investing more in education, new businesses, and so on. Jordan might exist but it would never be as good as it is today. Jordan does not have alot of natural resources, and the one thing it does have in abundance is its people. Without the Palestinians, half of that man power is gone.

  33. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “Isn’t it better for the Palestinian cause if the passports DID identify a Jordanian citizen as a Jordan or a Palestinian?”
    I think this is a good idea, and it does no harm, but the disadvantage that this would bring is inequality of differntiating between the two sects. In our communities,the name does matter, if a Syrian is called Lebanese he might be offended, but he surely will teach you what his real nationality is, so im scared that this problem will happen here as well, where Palestinians will be called Jordanians and they originally are Palestinians, or the opposite. Thats why this idea of stating the true nationality in the passports would help the situation.

  34. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “Don’t Palestinians make Jordan politically more unstable?”
    All these questions are trying to reach a point where a Jordanian will fight with a Palestinian about a certain point. Although I cannot say that Palestinians didnt cause problems for Jordan, but at this point we would all have to stay united under the title of Arabism and unity.

    • farah sinokrot says:

      khaleel this comment doesn’t make sense. although i am Palestinian but the overload of Palestinians in Jordan over whelmed the Jordanian resources as the Syrians are doing to the Jordanians now. regardless of the reason they are here but their presents have put stress on the economy and political welfare of Jordan

  35. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    “Isn’t it the duty of Jordanians, as fellow Arabs, to foster a feeling of brotherhood with the Palestinian cause?”

    As a Palestinian, I don’t get to say what others should do, but in my opinion I think that Jordanians didn’t only foster a feeling of brotherhood for the Palestinians, but honestly they are truly considered as brothers, from one family. This question is being asked in a very critical way to the Jordanians, and through my answer I will not approve of any inhospitable treatment that our ancestors got from the Jordanians in their own country. Also, to keep in mind that the west bank that is now conquered by Israel, was and will always remain a part of Jordan.

  36. Nizar says:

    “What the difference between a Jordanian and Palestinian anyway?”
    Jordan and Palestine are two different countries separated by the jordan River. So similar and close to one another. They have also shared their cultures and transitions. After the occupation of israel, palestinians fled to near by countries and have since then based their lives there. Many, like my grandfather left Palestine thinking he would come back soon. After several generations, my grandfather passed away and my parents gave birth to me. I have never been to Palestine but I still consider myself Palestinian. However, this does not mean I’m not Jordanian. I own a Jordanian passport and have lived here my entire life. If It was applicable to get hold of a palestinian passport then I would be a proud dual citizen.
    I however would not let the barrier of getting a passport stop me from being a dual citizen.

  37. Nizar says:

    I honestly just think that if Arabs see or feel that they are loyal to or more than one Arab country. Then, they can just identify themselves as Arab. There is no point in putting each other in uncomfortable positions. We all have different stories, coming from different places and having different traditions. The Arab countries all share the Arabic language, which unifies them. All the countries share traditions, so your beliefs and ways of life or even ones home town should not stop us from identifying ourselves as “Arab”.

    • Just because a group of people speak the same language and have similar traditions does not mean that they are unified… You could say the same thing about america and the UK, or Canada, or Australia. Similarly, could Mexico and Spain be considered united in the same way, or Brazil and Portugal? Why does the Arabic language and a few traditions encapsulate ‘being Arab.’

  38. Nevean Dekaidek says:

    “Does being a Jordanian mean one must forget their Palestinian identity?”
    In an idealist sense, yes it does. When Palestinians begin to consider themselves as Jordanians, the key aspect to what makes Palestine will be lost, its hope. Without the hope that the Palestinians carry they would not have to identify as Palestinians, and choosing to identify as Jordanian is a means of giving up in their eyes, and that is not an option.

    • Nizar says:

      Dear nevean,
      Palestine’s hope will not be lost because the Palestinians are not the only people that are defending Palestine. The whole arab world is defending palestine you dont have to be palestinian.
      Even many people that are not arabs are defending palestine. This means that you dont have to be palestinian to defend the cause.

      • Nevean Dekaidek says:

        But it obviously does not come close to mattering as much to the Palestinians as to any other countries.

  39. khaleel abdel razeq says:

    Nizar, I do agree on a part of what you said that Palestinians hope will never be lost, but honestly if you think about it in the current world, no one, not even the Arabs are defending the Palestinians in the conflict their facing, what do you think should be done to awaken the world with the conflict their facing?

    • Nizar says:

      I think that introducing a conflict between the Arabs is not the right way to end the real conflict. You can help them understand the situation in a different way. But this is not the way to end the conflict.

  40. “Aren’t Palestinian and Jordanian nationalism just 20th century constructions anyway?”

    In my personal opinion, although I was only exposed to these things very recently, I don’t think it matters. Even if it is a 20th century construction, I believe people have the right to identify however they want to. Legally, of course, if you’re a Jordanian citizen, you’re a Jordanian citizen – likewise if you’re Palestinian. But in terms of self-identification, I believe that is a freedom one should be able to enjoy.

  41. Hamza Ali says:

    Jordanians are from Jordan, Palestinians are from Palestine.

    • But what if someone identifies as Palestinian even though they have never been to the west bank? Are they still Palestinian just because their parents are? Is there a cut off point when a family has been removed from their country of origin for X generations that they cease identifying as that?

  42. “Can Jordan truly exist without Palestinians?”

    Seeing that Jordan and Palestine were initially one, and now, Palestinians make up a significant portion of Jordanian citizens, it is safe to say that Jordan cannot exist without Palestinians

  43. Rashed says:

    “If you were born in Jordan, no matter where your family came from, doesn’t it make you Jordanian by default?” No, it does not. I was born in The United Kingdom, it doesn’t make me British. A person born in Jordan does not make them Jordanian. It gives them a sort of belonging, possessiveness even, but nothing but that they were born there binds them. You must go back to your roots if you want to know where you are from, not where you are currently at.

    • I find that mentality interesting, because in the United States, if you are born in the United States you can receive US citizenship, despite your parents country of origin. While a person born in these circumstances would likely retain their parents identity completely, they themselves would have a slightly different identity.

  44. “Aren’t Palestinian and Jordanian nationalism just 20th century constructions anyway?”

    While the borders and governments are constructions, that does not mean the people who identify as either are no less passionate or devoted to their countries than other nations that have xisted for hundreds of years.

  45. Daniel Leal says:

    Stepping back, to a human rather than Palestinian, Jordanian, or Israeli perspective, the issue of whose land is it and identity may not be an issue of greed as it seems with most other human issues. Rather, it may be that fundamental human nature lies in belonging.

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